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Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that war shouldn't be the first reaction to a disagreement or conflict in foreign affairs?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that raping or molesting other men, women, and children is evil?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that murdering or torturing others is atrocious?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that not allowing others to live their lives without the interference of others when what they're doing isn't a threat to your own life is unnecessary and wrong?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that blatantly destroying the trust of others through lies, infidelity, or theft is immoral?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that abusing your child or significant other physically, mentally, emotionally, or verbally is cruel?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that should care for those less fortunate than you?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that you should attempt to understand the plights of others rather than accuse them of being at fault for every burden they're dealing?

Do you really need Jesus (or any god) to tell you that tolerance and peace will lead to a more progressive society - not selfishness and unfounded bigotry and hatred?

Well, before you say, "That's exactly why you need to believe in Jesus", I don't believe in Jesus or follow any religious doctrine and yet I know all of this.

Explain to me how I'm a good person without needing to subscribe to a religion, attend or donate to church, or pray every night?

The way I see it, no one needs to believe in Jesus or a god to be a good person. It is just a method of appealing to our unfortunately selfish, materialistic, entitled mindset that we have to be rewarded for being good to one another - that eternal paradise is your reward if you do good deeds in your mortal life.

I don't need to do a good thing or be nice to others to then justify it like so many do with "Jesus would have done this." I do good things because it's the right thing to do.

Some of you may even argue with "Well, our laws teach the same thing. How come you're not against them?"

Well, you need to know that we shouldn't have laws either.

But unlike religious morals, these laws are in place to discourage amoral people from hurting you, and if they do, they're punished thoroughly for it.

To argue that your Christian laws are as important as government-enforced laws is to say that no one has ever done evil while believing in your religious teachings.

And please, do not argue the "Then they're not real Christians" No-True-Scotsman fallacy. They are "real" Christians because they say they are. Who are you to say that they're not - because they did something that was against what your god teaches?

Then that would mean there is no such thing as a "real" Christian - that the only "real" Christian that existed was also the one who died with nails in his hands.

If you need a daily or weekly reminder of what is right and wrong - that what you're doing could have negative consequences on others - when it should come to you almost instinctively, then that means there's something wrong with you. Not those who don't "accept and love" Jesus but "need to".

I see it as you admitting that you will go out and cruelly hurt others in some fashion for your own selfish desires if you didn't believe in Jesus.

---

EDIT: Do not come here, attempting to engage me and others in a debate about your beliefs only to then block-reply because you don't like where the conversation is going.

~StrawberryR has already been blocked and had her recent comments hidden after block-replying me and two other people.

I will not tolerate that level of asshattery and childishness on my own stamps.

This is an adult topic, so act like an adult. If you can't handle the heat of a mature debate when no one is even insulting you or attacking you - if you're under this self-deluded belief that you're entitled to have your say without criticism - then you need to leave right now.

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:iconjeromesaur:
~JeromeSaur 9 hours ago  Hobbyist Artist
This is very true.
Reply
:icontxteclipse:
In my opinion goodness comes from God. It's not so much "I can't be good without God," it's "there would be no goodness period without God." The entire concept of goodness originates from and ends with God. To say you (general you) don't need God for goodness is like saying you don't need triangles to draw pyramids.

To answer your question as to how you can be "good" without following God, I will pose another question. Where does the concept of "goodness" come from? The answer I commonly hear is that it has evolved in our species because it provides a higher chance of survival. However, the same could be said for the tendency for humans to do horrible things to each other. To use an example from nature, male lions will kill the offspring of their rivals when they take over a pride in order to bring the females into heat. This ensures that lion's genes are spread (and not the genes of the weaker lion he took the pride from), but we as humans view infanticide as wrong. What is our criteria?

Boiling it down to evolution seems to make our morals no better than any animal species, from which we find countless examples of what the vast majority of humans consider horrible acts. Likewise, if everything was determined by evolution, the only reasonable criteria for morality is survival. This throws all of human morality into doubt: who can say that any act is "right" or "wrong"? Who can say that a criminal isn't simply acting on some evolved instinct?

I choose to believe that morality stems from a perfectly good being. The very point of morality is to create goodness, which can't be defined without something to weigh our morals against. Nature simply does not and cannot provide that golden standard. Therefore, in my world, non-religious people are simply borrowing (at least in part) the goodness created by God without a citation.

As for the stamp itself, I will be the first to admit I am not a perfect person. I do need that ideal to look up to, and the encouragement and empowerment that comes with it, in order to improve myself. I think the first step towards enlightenment is acknowledging you don't know everything, especially when it comes to being good. I believe that Jesus is that ideal, so naturally I look to Him when trying to improve myself.

I hope I have kept this civil enough. Sometimes I do let the argument get in the way of the discussion, but I'm trying to get better at that.
Reply
:iconkaneapoo:
~Kaneapoo Jun 3, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
From what I can tell? No you do not need a higher power to be considered a good person, I'm an atheist and I actually feel a lot better about the world around me then I did when the bible was in my life. I help people when I can, I hold doors open for others, I thank people for their good deeds. Wrong is wrong and morality is what I live by, nothing more nothing less. Heh, thought I should share this XD I think you are right. Not to say I hate people who are into religion, I mean. As long as it isn't hurting anyone else it's their choice.
Reply
:iconflutterboss:
*FlutterBOSS Jun 2, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Pretty sure this stamp is a logical fallacy. Just can't find the correct term for it.
Reply
:iconsunnybunnybear:
~SunnyBunnyBear Jun 5, 2013  New member
And this is coming from a Mormon who hates womens rights
Reply
:iconflutterboss:
*FlutterBOSS Jun 5, 2013  Student Digital Artist
How do I "hate" "women's rights"? You don't even know me. XD
Reply
:iconsunnybunnybear:
~SunnyBunnyBear Jun 5, 2013  New member
yah, but iv seen some of your comments on some stamps that make you look like one.
Reply
:iconflutterboss:
*FlutterBOSS Jun 5, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Like what? If anything, I'm more biased against men than I am to women. Men and guys are immature and only care about themselves and sports and crap like that. Women are sensitive and caring and are able to talk about intelligent things. Obviously this is a stereotype and both sexes have their pros and cons, but that's just been my experience in high school.

What exactly have I said that has caused you to conclude that I hate women or facetious things like that?
Reply
:iconsunnybunnybear:
~SunnyBunnyBear Jun 5, 2013  New member
Not only do you not supports womens rights on how the should not beable to control what grows inside her womb. But you are also an ass who dosent support gay right's, like letting a same sex couple adopt. I know some kids adopted by same sex couples that came out great, and ended up getting honors in school and college, because they had to loving same sex couples help and support them. But you would know much on the subject, since your church teachs you to hate on things like that.
Reply
:iconflutterboss:
*FlutterBOSS Jun 6, 2013  Student Digital Artist
Kid, you are so not worth the time of quickly refuting all of your fallacious arguments. You don't know what you attempt to speak like an adult about.

Read a book.
Reply
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